Entertainment For Lively Minds
Podcast 101: bridging oceans and breaking sound barriers to bring *you* information and entertainment
In the new issue of the magazine Greg Milner, the author of "Perfecting Sound Forever - The Story Of Recorded Music", writes about how our idea of good sound is constantly changing. He gets to talk about it in this week's podcast while Rob Fitzpatrick expands on his argument that popular culture is actually becoming too popular. Plus Fraser Lewry on going to Wembley by bike and trying to scam a fortune out of iTunes and David Hepworth on the trial and execution of Charles I as well as other top pop gossip.
It's all in the expanding world of the Word Podcast which this week was recorded from the comfort of our own homes using Skype.
You can subscribe to the weekly Word podcast here or stream the latest one below.
I have tried but I'm essentially lazy
Can someone post a link to the iPlayer/Charles I please?
The things I do for you
It's here. You want me to fluff up the pillows while I'm here?
Oh
If you could, David. Thanks. Have a good weekend.
In our time
Great recommendation to the 'In our Time' programme. Am listening to a previous programme on the Suffragette movement - brilliant. Its on iplayer. You can download newer additions on podcast....
In Our Time 2
The advent of iPlayer and podcasts has allowed me to listen to programmes that I'd hear trailed and then rarely get an opportunity to listen to.
I love the eclecticism - other recent programmes have covered evolution of the whale; the library at Alexandria; the uncertainty principle; history of St Petersburg.
As DH said it's not about celebrities being put up as a hook; if you're interested in ideas, are prepared to listen to what are sometimes difficult arguments (which Melvyn Bragg always gets his experts to break down for us), and are open to subjects that on the face of it don't always seem that interesting you'll be amply rewarded.
I have a complete set of IOT's - hundreds of 'em
if anyone is interested, I'll torrent 'em somewhere
Oh yes
I'm sure *some people* would.
*Some people* can download the first 229 episodes
at http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4334554/In_Our_Time_2002-2007_(BBC_Radio_4)_with_Melvyn_Bragg_-_229_epis
...that's everything up to Dec 2007. It's actually being torrented by someone else so there's no point in me starting a new one.
I'll create a torrent for the 2008 episodes shortly
On a slightly related issue
I've been reading a couple of Studs Terkel's books lately, the oral history stuff on the depression and on musicians, which I can highly recommend. Anybody know of any torrents that put some of his radio shows together?
Much obliged.
EDIT: I've found a Voices of our Time torrent, but anything else would be gratefully received.
Studs
There was some Studs on Spotify last time I looked.
ta very much
Street legal
I edited some copy about the iTunes/Amazon case this week, so I know the story fairly well, and my free media law advice would be to throw in the odd 'allegedly' here and there.
Without banging on at great length about it and boring the pants off the people here who want to discuss Charles I, these people are innocent until a court says otherwise, which means your discussion, which appeared to assume guilt, could quite easily being taken as contempt of court, and is potentially a slander if they are not found guilty or the case never goes before the beak.
Thought I'd mention it
A pedant writes
It'd be libel they should be careful of, not slander. Contrary to popular opinion, slander doesn't refer to things that are spoken while libel refers to things that are written; slander is simply an utterance in temporary form while libel is one in permanent form.
This means, then, that libel would be applied not only to newspaper articles but also to audio recordings, graffiti on a bridge...anything that's still going to be there the next day, while slander, not libel, would be applied to sky-writing that said "X IS AN EMBEZZLER", because it would have faded away after a few minutes.
In Oscar Wilde's cause célèbre against the Marquis of Queensbury (insert "Rules OK" gag here), the allegedly libellous material - "Oscar Wilde, posing as a sodomite" - wasn't published; it was a private note. But since notes are permanent, and can therefore be presented as hard evidence in court, Wilde sued for libel, not slander.
Suits for slander seldom prosper, because all the plaintiff needs is a couple of witnesses to say "No, that's not what was said" and there's no conclusive evidence either way.
Allegedly.
Yes, you are correct, but my
Yes, you are correct, but my basic point remains.
It is legally unwise, not to say unfair, to treat the accused as guilty when a case is 'active' as this one is in contempt terms. In reality, a prejudice prosecution would be unlikely here I'd suggest, but defamation remains an issue in this instance.
Enjoyable as always....
...but a couple of things:
1) David and Fraser didn't really say that much about what it was actually like to do the podcast 'remotely'. Was it more awkward than when you're in the same room? I'd be interested to see if it would affect the 'chipping in', chat down the pub feel you get when there are three or four of you doing the session.
2) I'm Rob will generate debate, but I can't say I go with his theory. It isn't really enough for him to say he didn't find the Mighty Boosh funny, three or four times. That isn't going to put me off. Why have the mainstream embraced the Boosh when, for example, the League of Gentlemen never 'crossed over'?
Or Doctor Who. I'm a fan, myself, but if Rob really thinks that coverage of the new version has been unblinkingly positive, he hasn't been looking very hard. God, try almost any review in Time Out. Critical reaction has not 'blanded out' into general acceptance - I actually think it's extremes of pro and anti.
Or Beth Ditto. I haven't actually noticed that many people raving about the Gossip. What interests me about her is this: as a bloke, claiming feminist/lesbian empathy would be pushing it, but I do know all about weight problems. And she is obese. I am gobsmacked to read about people saying she 'looks great', or worse, that she is a 'great role model'. No she isn't. Encouraging boys or girls who need to lose weight to stay 'just as they are' and 'celebrate themselves' is encouraging them to lead unhealthy lives and put themselves at greater risk of disease.
It seems to me that there will always be curious things to investigate about people who capture the public imagination like this, even if we hate the way TV and the popular press go about it.
Re: doing it by Skype
Well, I think we learned that it was do-able and would work on those occasions when it proves impossible to get people together and book a suitable room. And also it enables us to involve people like Greg Milner from his Brooklyn home.
But how...
...did you manage to do it without that familiar Skype delay?
Delay
I've never experienced that - even when making international calls. So I have to say that I'm unfamiliar with the familiar Skye delay.
Well done anyway
It seemed to work very well.
they only live 4 miles apart!
I like the smash grab diy ethos of the whole thing a small irony seeing as DH isn't a fan of punk. I know people whinge about the sound quality but for a one off listen it's fine. I like the idea you can make these things with some kit bought on the high st and some imagination of of course.
Fraser, your prog band
might have needed another name as some other lot beat you to it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_(band)
Also there's a similarly ovoid but all new-fangled mob:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Egg_(funk_band)
"In Our Time"
is available as a free podcast and you can subscribe to it in the normal way, e.g through iTunes. As David says, it's a marvellous programme.
$300,000 iTunes royalties scam? Just enough to buy a turntable.
Listening to Word Podcast 101, I found myself idly googling "world's most expensive turntable", as I couldn't guess how to spell the the name Caliburn (allegedly the world's most expensive turntable at $90,000). It turns out not to be the world's most expensive.
The Goldmund Reference II costs the same amount as the alleged iTunes royalties scam mentioned later.
http://www.nylvi.com/blog/the-worlds-most-amazing-turntables/
popular culture is too popular
I'm with RF on this I think the growth of culture sections in papers adds to the problem. They have space to fill and the likes of beth ditto and boosh are rushed in to fill the space.
I was on the train recently and very posh wedding guest party got on and after a while it was clear they were talking about music and Maximo Park in partiuclar. Now I don't care that much about MP but when did jah's start liking indie?
Dear Rob Fitzpatrick
Whilst a fan of your work, I'm astonished to find you base your taste in entertainment almost primarily on "what Vernon Kay doesn't like." Anyway, three things that came into my head whilst listening to pod101:
1) Nice to know I'm not the only person who doesn't "get" The Boosh. I've been made to feel there's something wrong with me rather than maybe it's just that it's not funny. The episode I saw was based on a boxing kangaroo... that last sentence was funnier than the show itself.
2) "Doctor Who now seems to be just David Tennant pulling that gurning face." Nail. Head. Thank you. See also: Big Brother with Davina McCall doing her open-mouth-as-wide-as-possible face.
3) Talking of everyone wanting to seem "a bit crazy" - this seems to be an absolute mantra for the vast majority of people over the age of 14 and in full-time education (I'm using very sketchy amateur psychology here). Such credit is given to "being an individual" yet people fear being an outsider so much, anything slightly counter-culture is latched on to and everyone is happy: person can claim "I'm a bit mad, me" whilst fitting in nicely. Case in point: around 1 in 3 photo albums on Facebook is entitled "Random!" I think it's supposed to be short-hand for "look at me, I'm so crazy and individual I just take photos of, like, anything - SO random!" However, it's actually short-hand for "I have no imagination and I'm the kind of cretin who uses the word 'banter' as a verb"
Anyway, enjoyed the podcast as ever. Rant over now, thanks.
I know what Rob F is getting at
I somehow find myself knowing about things and having an opinion about things I am not remotely interested in.
I think it is because there is a prevailing infantilism in our culture. People simply do not put away childish things anymore but cling to them.
50 is the new 20! Scream the headlines in The Sunday Mushbrain Hot/Not section
I, of course, eschew such nonsense.
Instead, I'm off to put on Scritti Politi and party like its 1982 .
Stealing signs
Well I, being a massive fan of the law, have never stolen anything in my life. Not even hearts. But my friends at university did. It was 1991 and we were living in Portrush (Northern Ireland's answer to Blackpool if the question was "Can you build a really shit version of Blackpool on a much smaller scale?"). They found a massive "Town centre" sign, complete with pole, lying on the pavement, presumably that the council were replacing and were due to collect. So, of course, they stole it.
But because the pole was about nine feet in length, the sign would not stand upright in their house, so they were stuck for a place to put it. That was until they alighted upon the great idea of leaning it up the entire length of the first flight of stairs. No matter that this cumbersome sign took up 30% of available stair space, there it stayed for many months.
Then one night they had a house party and, inevitably, the police were called by irked neighbours. The police came in, told everyone to keep the noise down and were about to leave. Then they spotted the sign.
Police: "How did THAT get there?"
My friends: " ... "
Police: "Our advice is return that to where you found it. In the next five minutes."
My friends: " ... "
The police leave. Followed quickly by the sign. It was never seen again.
Selling bus shelters
Sometime in my late teens, early 20s, my mates and I hit on the idea of selling bus shelters. Walking home drunk, long after the last bus had departed, we noticed how many houses had "For Sale" signs in their front gardens. For some reason - perhaps being focused on cursing the lack of post-midnight buses home - it seemed significant that you never saw bus shelters for sale. We decided to rectify this omission. It proved surprisingly easy to uproot a sign from outside a house, totter down the road to the next bus shelter, and plant the "For Sale" sign solidly in front of the shelter. This was such a good idea we repeated it two or three times as we wound our way homewards. In the remorseful light of morning I rather hoped it was a dream, but my bus journey to work demonstrated otherwise. Mind you, the resultant tittering of the schoolkids who shared my bus was rather gratifying.
Stolen Signs
I was never sure if this was really stolen or just misappropriated by previous inhabitants. It was in the dining room (well the room adjacent to the kitchen) of the house at 222a Westgate Road Newcastle-upon-Tyne. It was a full sized copy of the billboard poster featuring Stanley who starred in the animated adventures on the TV commercial for Whitbread Tankard (as Dr Spooner used to say phnaa, phnaa).
Stanley's catch phrase tune had the chorus "It's tankard that helps me excel, after one I do anything well."
I used to like to think that it was a little like a Roy Lichtenstein print, poseur moi?
Was that worth the effort?
"In Our Time" email newsletter
Fans of "In Our Time" - OMG, they are bonkers, LOL! - might want to sign up for Melvyn Bragg's weekly newsletter, in which he expands on some of the points raised in the programme and mentions those that were cut out due to lack of time.
The email usually continues with Melvyn describing his habitual stroll through St James' Park - with a regular update on the pelican situation - towards Parliament, where some fellow Lords often harrumph that some point or other was neglected in the programme.
Sometimes Melvyn doesn't have enough time to write much; for example if he's late for lunch with Sir Jeremy Isaacs or something.
The email has a certain Samuel Johnson feel to it, which could well be intentional. Sign up at the programme's website.
Demonstration discs when buying hi-fi gear
I was quite surprised to hear our beloved leader Mr.Hepworth referring to hi-fi shops choosing the demonstration disc when he was buying some high-end gear. A few years ago, I decided to fulfill a lifetime ambition and treat myself to some seriously good audio gear (having previously progressed slowly from Binatone mono record player, to a "stereo", to a music centre - remember them?, to a cheapo-cheapo pseudo-separates system, to a cheapish "proper" separates system), and went along to my friendly local independent hi-fi shop (Sound Academy in Bloxwich). I phoned ahead, told them what kind of price range I wanted - it was speakers the first time - and what kinds of music I liked, and they said they'd have a few candidates set up in the listening room so that I could do some instant side-by-side comparisons. They also suggested I bring along some favourite discs, since I'd find it easier to compare and judge with music I knew well. I took along Dave Brubeck's "Time Out", and Garbage's "2.0". As several people have already said on another thread, I didn't have to concentrate and nit-pick to hear the differences between the speakers, I was amazed how different the various speakers sounded, but found hearing them play familiar music made it much easier to choose my favourite speakers. The experience was similar over the next couple of years when I repeated the exercise with an amplifier and a CD player. So that's what I'd advise: always take along some favourite discs - the shop should be more than happy to play those instead of their own demo discs.
Podcast lacked a bit of the usual chemistry.
due to that Skype thing - I hope you are not tiring with all getting together in a room and "talking bollocks about music".
I'd agree it lacked a bit of the usual chemistry....
....but I think it had some other things going for it:
1. A couple of contributions from correspondents
2. We managed to do it.
3. The technology has really come on and will probably come on some more in the near future.
There's certainly no tiring of getting together and talking bollocks (and it's in the nature of talking bollocks that you go where conversation takes you rather than sticking to any particular subject such as music) but the need to keep refreshing the mix of people and the sheer logisitical challenge of getting people together means we need to ring the changes now and again.
Coming up the weekend after next we hope to bring you a podcast featuring the Word team direct from Glastonbury. We already have a long chat with Paul Du Noyer about his new book "In The City" in the can which will go out the week after that.
We're more enthusiastic about the podcast than ever. It's just a pity we don't get anything back for it.
You all get my praise...
... and thanks for the work you do put into the podcast - and I must admit to enjoying it more now than I did with the earlier editions.
Good to see In Our Time being praised (Radio 4 at 9 a.m. on a Thursday morning, folks - and available via iTunes) - I first happened upon it nearly a year ago when driving to the office after a weekly early morning breakfast meeting. It's just a wonderfully engrossing & educational listen.
Would like to see an interview with Melvyn Bragg is a future issue of The Word.
Ah come on David...
you get the love and admiration of your devoted following, isn't that enough?
Seriously though, I like a fair few others I guess, would happily pay for downloading the podcast or even accept a increase on the magazine subscription if it would help the running of the podcast and web-site too.
Sorry to come over as a technophobe, it is amazing that you can put that together using Skype, I didn't mean to belittle the achievement - it certainly is an excellent way to conduct the Backstage Podcasts.
I'm just a traditionalist I suppose, I'd be happy if you all took a tape recorder down the Compton Arms for a few pints and broadcast the conversation!
I always sound more testy......
....than I am.
I didn't remotely take offence.
It was just your sentence
"We're more enthusiastic about the podcast than ever. It's just a pity we don't get anything back for it."
Made me feel terribly guilty!
Me too
And I guess, if you're running a business, you want to see some return on every activity. But I would suggest that the poddcast is one of the things binding the Word community together and thus makes it more likely that your listeners will buy the Word than any other music magazine or will go to this website which, although free, does contain advertising. Do you have any figures (I don't mean you should publish them) showing any correlation between listenership and readership?
But please keep up the good work.
Yes, we have no statistics
We have no stats. Nor does anybody else.
My feeling is that the core of people who listen to the podcast are devoted readers. The podcast probably has the effect of making them like the magazine more. We would like to think they were subscribers but we can't be sure.
The podcast possibly also has the effect of widening the circle the magazine operates in. We know that we have some strong personalities on the magazine and we know that people like to hear them and see them as well as reading them. But anybody in commerce will tell you that it's very difficult to do anything on the web that leads to an action in the physical world such as buying a magazine. There are just too many things that get in the way. People are busy, there are millions of choices and inertia usually wins.
Most newspapers have responded to this challenge by putting all their content on the web for free. There was a time when they believed this would lead to an advertising revenue bonanza. There aren't many who believe it now. The price that people can ask for internet advertising has dropped steadily over the last few years as the commodity has got more plentiful.
I'm very keen that we continue to do all this stuff because we're pretty good at it, there is a real appetite for it and it's refreshingly direct. But at the moment the only way we can pay for it is via our lifeline, which is subscription revenue. If I could order things in such a way that our subscribers got a better deal out of all this activity – the podcasts, the website, the whatever comes next – than the people who just drop in, I would do.
Wouldn't you in my place?
Separate subs
For podcasts and magazine? Mag subscribers get the podcast for free via an ID number, while everybody else pays 49p or 99p via iTunes or something?
Or you get a choice of subscribing to the mag only at one price and the mag plus podcast at another, with every edition being 99p otherwise to non-subscribers?
Or does the cost of putting that technology in place outweigh the amount you'd make?
It's not so much the cost
As the technology itself: it's not easy - in fact it's near impossible - to reliably deliver a podcast to a specific database of subscribers.
Would the same apply
If you had to go to a site and download it, but using an ID number meant you got it for free - I'm thinking in terms of those cds where you get an ID number inside the cd booklet and if you then got to the artist's website and key it in, you get to download a wonderful extra track so good they left it off the proper record.
No
Because we don't control distribution of the podcast - it's hosted by Hipcast, and delivered via podcast managers like iTunes and Juice as well as the XML feed, all of which handle access to the audio in completely different ways.
How about this?
If ever I see anyone from The Word down the pub, I'll buy you a pint of mild and a packet of pork scratchings - will that help?
How about a "Tip Jar"
I've seen free-software sites use an honesty system. I think there's probably a software tool or two out there that enable you to implement a "tip jar" on your site, where people can voluntarily make a donation via PayPal or similar. A bit like the Radiohead album, but much simpler in that delivery isn't directly linked to the donation system. I for one would be happy to bung the occasional fiver in a virtual tip jar, in gratitude for the podcasts and the continued existence of this site with its astonishingly high signal-to-noise ratio. I can't imagine I'd be the only one.
We very much appreciate the sentiment...
...but ultimately we have a business to run and people's wages to pay and so we would prefer a system where people paid a certain sum that they felt was good value for money and in return got a range of different "services".
A subscription to this magazine costs £42 at the time of writing. I would be happy if people paid that and in return they got: 12 issues of the magazine, 12 CDs, access to this very vibrant website and a weekly podcast. I hope they would be happy with that as well.
I don't think it's in anybody's interests for us to be treated as a charity.
Am I a freeloader if I buy the mag in a shop?
Barrier to subscribing 1 - I like the idea of being able to make a brief judgement call each time. I have never subscribed to any magazine but certain ones I buy automatically and have done this for (bloody hell!) about 30 years. Q used to be one of those but gradually I stopped.
Barrier 2 - When I was younger, in a given week, I might have only had enough spare cash to afford 2 or 3 out of the 5 I would have liked to buy. Again, a judgement call would be made over which ones got the nod.
Barrier 3 - I live in NZ and the annual subscription is nearly double the UK rate. Over here, it *is* actually much cheaper to get it in a shop. And I have the added freedom to pass on the special Prog issue (for example) and buy some sweets instead.
The podcast generates a great deal of goodwill and you all plainly enjoy doing it, so as long as it is affordable why fret about whether it pays its way? I think it is healthy to assume no-one is listening and use it as broadcasting practice. It might score a few of you spots on Radio 4 panel shows when Francis Wheen falls down the stairs while looking sideways at life. At the very least, it may appeal to those that don't buy magazines.
I know it is easy for me to say that but your subscribers won't give you the truth from the kids on the street, man.
Nothing wrong with that at all
You're free to buy it any way you want.
However, I'll let you know when it scores a few of us spots on Radio Four panel shows. That's the same day the ravens leave the Tower of London and New Zealand floats off towards Antartica.
Radio 4 recommendations: "The Reunion"
While we're praising Radio 4, I'd like to mention Sue MacGregor's brilliant programme, "The Reunion", a series "which reunites a group of people intimately involved in a moment of modern history".
Two recent programmes were the best radio I've heard in years. They're still available on iPlayer (just about):
Members of the original National Theatre (Sir Michael Gambon, Sir Derek Jacobi, Dame Maggie Smith, Dame Joan Plowright and Bill Gaskill):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00jh1f1
Beirut hostages John McCarthy, Brian Keenan and Terry Waite discuss their shared experiences and are joined by campaigner Jill Morrell, who was the girlfriend of John McCarthy at the time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k2q8s
Both programmes are full of wonderful, moving and hilarious anecdotes.
What Hi Fi (is bought nowadays)
Not exactly an answer to DH's questions but an interesting, to me, insight into what the market conditions faced by the traditional shops must now be like:
http://community.whathifi.com/blogs/industry_insider/archive/2009/02/04/...
appreciate the logistics issue
but I'd say you could blindfold me and I'd know a skype cast over the real mccoy- less energy, fewer interruptions, indeed fewer participants. But still enjoyable.
Re ratings can't you find out how popular it is? I work for the stock exchange in Australia and I know our finance podcast is top or second in its section on itunes. Maybe it is a matter of subscribing. Will see what I can find.
Value of the podcast - no direct earnings but certainly part of the offering. It makes us loyal proselytisers. I can attest to a number of converts after my sermons. Maybe it helps you get music mag of the year too !
As Paul Kelly says "from little things big things grow"- look that up on spotify which I'm still waiting for down here.